In ,
Bruce Hagen typed:
I don't know of any way to stop the send other than the radical way
you are doing it, unless clicking Work Offline stops it. How large is
the attachment? Add about 35% to that for encoding.

IMHO, I would not only do what Tom suggested regarding e-mail
scanning, but would remove Norton all together. It is a huge resource
hog,

Actually, it's not as of the 2009 versions. And it's much faster. You'll
never know that though I suppose because your'e one of the closed minds on
here. It even sports a memory usage meter which I"ve checked and found to
be accurate. It's much more streamlined and faster than it used to be and,
properly implemented never was a resource hog as you claim although there
were instances where it took too mucy processing power all at once - they
had it all grouped together.

I may be leaving Symantec as my subscriptions run out, but not for the
intentionally uneducated reasons you cite. To me it's a cash problem in
that they're getting too expensive and money grabbing. Technically though
there's no way to complain about the latest version being a resource hog of
any kind.

Twayne



(McAfee is close behind), and get a better "Free" AV program
like Avast, or even Microsoft Security Essentials which I have been
running on two machines for a couple of months now with no issue. I
would /never/ have anything made by Symantec on a machine of mine.

Download and run the Norton Removal Tool:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...05033108162039

Symantec uninstaller may not finish the job:
http://windowssecrets.com/comp/080207#story1

Microsoft Security Essentials:
http://www.microsoft.com/security_es...s/default.aspx

"Hickory" wrote in message
...
Thanks Tom. But, I really don't think it is email scanning for
several reasons. I have totally disabled Norton including not
having it in Startup,
and the same problem occurs. Also, note that I said the proble is
completely
random -- I have a 1mb file that I use as a test for emailing to
myself. If
it was scanning, the problem should occur with some consistency.
Furthermore, even Symantec will not slow down sending by a factor of
10 or more. That 1mb file is sometimes sent in just several seconds
and at other
times many minutes. According to Task Manager, the % utilization
rate is EITHER about 0.03% OR about 0.45%.

I appreciate the suggestion. But, I have been trying to resolve
this for over a year including testing with the ISP tech support and
with a local PC
guru.

My question is simply, is there a way to kill a Send transmission
without having to restart the computer.

"Tom Willett" wrote:

Turning off the email scanning in Symantec doesn't usually get the
job done.
You need to uninstall the program, reboot, and do a custom install
without
the email scanning module.

"Hickory" wrote in message
...
I am using Outlook Express under XP. I am on a 768kb DSL. Mail
is scanned by Symantec. I understand that mail, when sent, is
marked as "sent" before it completes because Symantec has it.

Due to erratic problems with transmission, when I send a large
attachment
it
may take much, much time -- up to 10 times or more slower than
normal. (When I look at Task Manager/Networking, I can see that
xmit utilization is very, very slow.) The problem occurs very
randomly, so when I see it going so slow, I want to kill the
transmission and try again later. I have turned off Symnatec's email
scanning as a test and that
seems to make nearly no difference. The only thing I have been
able to do is restart the computer which seems like a really dumb
way to do this. Is there a way to kill a message after I send it but
before it
finishes? Thank you for your suggestions.



.



--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

In ,
Peter Foldes typed:
Hickory

You did nothing with Norton. It has already taken over. The only way
to stop Norton is to Uninstall it using the Norton Uninstall tool and
then re-install without the email integration(scanning) option.
As it is right now Norton is still doing the damage .

Woof! You're so far off track it's amazing.

Twayne



Norton Uninstall Tool
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...05033108162039

"Hickory" wrote in message
...
Thanks Tom. But, I really don't think it is email scanning for
several reasons. I have totally disabled Norton including not
having it in Startup, and the same problem occurs. Also, note that
I said the proble is completely random -- I have a 1mb file that I
use as a test for emailing to myself. If it was scanning, the
problem should occur with some consistency. Furthermore, even
Symantec will not slow down sending by a factor of 10 or more. That
1mb file is sometimes sent in just several seconds and at other
times many minutes. According to Task Manager, the % utilization
rate is EITHER about 0.03% OR about 0.45%.

I appreciate the suggestion. But, I have been trying to resolve
this for over a year including testing with the ISP tech support and
with a local PC guru.

My question is simply, is there a way to kill a Send transmission
without having to restart the computer.

"Tom Willett" wrote:

Turning off the email scanning in Symantec doesn't usually get the
job done. You need to uninstall the program, reboot, and do a
custom install without the email scanning module.

"Hickory" wrote in message
...
I am using Outlook Express under XP. I am on a 768kb DSL. Mail
is scanned by Symantec. I understand that mail, when sent, is
marked as "sent"
before
it completes because Symantec has it.

Due to erratic problems with transmission, when I send a large
attachment
it
may take much, much time -- up to 10 times or more slower than
normal.
(When
I look at Task Manager/Networking, I can see that xmit utilization
is
very,
very slow.) The problem occurs very randomly, so when I see it
going so slow, I want to kill the transmission and try again later.

I have turned off Symnatec's email scanning as a test and that
seems to
make
nearly no difference. The only thing I have been able to do is
restart
the
computer which seems like a really dumb way to do this.

Is there a way to kill a message after I send it but before it
finishes?

Thank you for your suggestions.



.



--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

In ,
Peter Foldes typed:
Hickory

You did nothing with Norton. It has already taken over. The only way
to stop Norton is to Uninstall it using the Norton Uninstall tool and
then re-install without the email integration(scanning) option.
As it is right now Norton is still doing the damage .

Woof! You're so far off track it's amazing.

Twayne



Norton Uninstall Tool
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...05033108162039

"Hickory" wrote in message
...
Thanks Tom. But, I really don't think it is email scanning for
several reasons. I have totally disabled Norton including not
having it in Startup, and the same problem occurs. Also, note that
I said the proble is completely random -- I have a 1mb file that I
use as a test for emailing to myself. If it was scanning, the
problem should occur with some consistency. Furthermore, even
Symantec will not slow down sending by a factor of 10 or more. That
1mb file is sometimes sent in just several seconds and at other
times many minutes. According to Task Manager, the % utilization
rate is EITHER about 0.03% OR about 0.45%.

I appreciate the suggestion. But, I have been trying to resolve
this for over a year including testing with the ISP tech support and
with a local PC guru.

My question is simply, is there a way to kill a Send transmission
without having to restart the computer.

"Tom Willett" wrote:

Turning off the email scanning in Symantec doesn't usually get the
job done. You need to uninstall the program, reboot, and do a
custom install without the email scanning module.

"Hickory" wrote in message
...
I am using Outlook Express under XP. I am on a 768kb DSL. Mail
is scanned by Symantec. I understand that mail, when sent, is
marked as "sent"
before
it completes because Symantec has it.

Due to erratic problems with transmission, when I send a large
attachment
it
may take much, much time -- up to 10 times or more slower than
normal.
(When
I look at Task Manager/Networking, I can see that xmit utilization
is
very,
very slow.) The problem occurs very randomly, so when I see it
going so slow, I want to kill the transmission and try again later.

I have turned off Symnatec's email scanning as a test and that
seems to
make
nearly no difference. The only thing I have been able to do is
restart
the
computer which seems like a really dumb way to do this.

Is there a way to kill a message after I send it but before it
finishes?

Thank you for your suggestions.



.



--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

In ,
Hickory typed:
It seems that everyone wants to blame the problem solely on Norton.
That does not even begin to explain three things --

I agree that's entirely possible, Norton AV isn't the culprit, especially
with the latest versions. But I do have a couple other comments:


1) Why does the problem occur randomly?

The speed of the sending and thus how long the data takes to actually
handshake and be sent is "random" in that the 'net speeds are "random". 394
or whatever the upload speed is, is far from constant and varies a lot,
especially if it encounters busy backbones and servers along the trail. The
total time is determined by when the final ACK is received, which can vary
all over the map. Many other things, including the ISP can affect timings
too, especiallly if his traffic is high enough to make queues start to fill
up.

Scanning will have
approximately the same effect every time I send an email. Remember,
I said in my initial post that I am doing my testing using the same
attachment of 1mb (which isn't very big).

Well, the scanning itself will be about the same, but as I mentioned above,
it also has to include the 'net's timing which can be all over the map at
any instant in time. So I wouldn't expect identical results very often.
HOWEVER, when you send a mail to yourself, other than the nodes crossed
to get to/from your ISP, it does minimize the possibilities. Either one of
those nodes (which changes from message to message sometimes) has a problem
possibly, or the ISP itself is injecting variable timing issues.

2) How can Norton slow email sending by a factor of 10 or more? Even
a real piece of junk (and Norton does rank up there) is not likely to
make that much of a difference, especially because the problem occurs
randomly.

Here I think the definiton of "sending" needs to be watched out for. You hit
Send, your machine feeds the mail to NOrton's AV and marks it Sent. That
time depends on your own machine and what else itm ight be doing. Then
Norton AV has to do the scanning; that will likely be reasonably consistant
unless you have some heavy load on the cpu. Then when Norton gets done, it
has to get the ISP's attention, which is a variable. Then feed the data to
the ISP which again is a variable depending on traffic and a lot of other
things. At that point it's considered "Sent", but that's not likely to be a
time ou can find unless the ISP wll share log data with you.

And, here's a biggie: Your own pagefile could be a large part of the issue.
Data in RAM will exit quickly, but if several Meg have gone into the
pagefile, then it needs to be read back from a slow hard drive (compared to
RAM), buffered, concatenated with the rest of what was already sent, and
depending on the size of the pagefile, can get pretty slow in relative
terms. Ten times slower? I'm not sure because again it has so many
dependencies such as seek times and rpm of the hard drive and all that and
how the pagefile is called or not, latency and all kinds of other things.

3) Why is the % Utilization as given under task manager always about
0.03% OR about 0.45%? That is very consistent.

I assume you mean cpu here. Sure; the slower things work, the more there is
a bottleneck, the lower the utilization will get.


Over a year ago, I did uninstall Norton and ran the test with no
difference. I understand that Norton and McAfee are low in
everybody's estimation, but given the above, I believe there is some
other issue. Finally, uninstalling Norton, then re-downloading, then
re-installing seems like not a very good idea since no one really
knows what the real problem is.

I'd have to agree with that. With Norton it's easy enough to just kill the
AutoProtect and achieve the same thing as removing it.

But, I do appreciate everyone's help.

I'm out of time, but I am wondering how/what you are measuring and what you
consider the start and end of the send? I can think of some scripts that
could be written to itemize a bunch of the timings but they wouldn't be
trivial to write. At the moment I"m not even sure what API I'd use.

IMO you may well be seeing "normal" operation but those are famous last
words. It sounds like an interesting task to figure out and I sort of hope
someone steps in who has the time to do it. AFAIK there's no easy way to
make the determinations you'd need.

Is this your only machine? Any chance you have another one to use for
comparisons? It wouldn't even need to be the same speed or specs but the
amount of RAM and hard drive speeds should be close together.

HTH,

Twayne



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

Asked/Answered (in principle) in IE6 Browser on 10 Dec-09.

Hickory wrote:
I am using Outlook Express under XP. I am on a 768kb DSL. Mail is
scanned
by Symantec. I understand that mail, when sent, is marked as "sent"
before
it completes because Symantec has it.

Due to erratic problems with transmission, when I send a large
attachment it
may take much, much time -- up to 10 times or more slower than
normal. (When I look at Task Manager/Networking, I can see that
xmit utilization is
very, very slow.) The problem occurs very randomly, so when I see
it going
so slow, I want to kill the transmission and try again later.

I have turned off Symnatec's email scanning as a test and that
seems to make
nearly no difference. The only thing I have been able to do is
restart the
computer which seems like a really dumb way to do this.

Is there a way to kill a message after I send it but before it
finishes?

Thank you for your suggestions.

.



--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

In ,
Hickory typed:
It seems that everyone wants to blame the problem solely on Norton.
That does not even begin to explain three things --

I agree that's entirely possible, Norton AV isn't the culprit, especially
with the latest versions. But I do have a couple other comments:


1) Why does the problem occur randomly?

The speed of the sending and thus how long the data takes to actually
handshake and be sent is "random" in that the 'net speeds are "random". 394
or whatever the upload speed is, is far from constant and varies a lot,
especially if it encounters busy backbones and servers along the trail. The
total time is determined by when the final ACK is received, which can vary
all over the map. Many other things, including the ISP can affect timings
too, especiallly if his traffic is high enough to make queues start to fill
up.

Scanning will have
approximately the same effect every time I send an email. Remember,
I said in my initial post that I am doing my testing using the same
attachment of 1mb (which isn't very big).

Well, the scanning itself will be about the same, but as I mentioned above,
it also has to include the 'net's timing which can be all over the map at
any instant in time. So I wouldn't expect identical results very often.
HOWEVER, when you send a mail to yourself, other than the nodes crossed
to get to/from your ISP, it does minimize the possibilities. Either one of
those nodes (which changes from message to message sometimes) has a problem
possibly, or the ISP itself is injecting variable timing issues.

2) How can Norton slow email sending by a factor of 10 or more? Even
a real piece of junk (and Norton does rank up there) is not likely to
make that much of a difference, especially because the problem occurs
randomly.

Here I think the definiton of "sending" needs to be watched out for. You hit
Send, your machine feeds the mail to NOrton's AV and marks it Sent. That
time depends on your own machine and what else itm ight be doing. Then
Norton AV has to do the scanning; that will likely be reasonably consistant
unless you have some heavy load on the cpu. Then when Norton gets done, it
has to get the ISP's attention, which is a variable. Then feed the data to
the ISP which again is a variable depending on traffic and a lot of other
things. At that point it's considered "Sent", but that's not likely to be a
time ou can find unless the ISP wll share log data with you.

And, here's a biggie: Your own pagefile could be a large part of the issue.
Data in RAM will exit quickly, but if several Meg have gone into the
pagefile, then it needs to be read back from a slow hard drive (compared to
RAM), buffered, concatenated with the rest of what was already sent, and
depending on the size of the pagefile, can get pretty slow in relative
terms. Ten times slower? I'm not sure because again it has so many
dependencies such as seek times and rpm of the hard drive and all that and
how the pagefile is called or not, latency and all kinds of other things.

3) Why is the % Utilization as given under task manager always about
0.03% OR about 0.45%? That is very consistent.

I assume you mean cpu here. Sure; the slower things work, the more there is
a bottleneck, the lower the utilization will get.


Over a year ago, I did uninstall Norton and ran the test with no
difference. I understand that Norton and McAfee are low in
everybody's estimation, but given the above, I believe there is some
other issue. Finally, uninstalling Norton, then re-downloading, then
re-installing seems like not a very good idea since no one really
knows what the real problem is.

I'd have to agree with that. With Norton it's easy enough to just kill the
AutoProtect and achieve the same thing as removing it.

But, I do appreciate everyone's help.

I'm out of time, but I am wondering how/what you are measuring and what you
consider the start and end of the send? I can think of some scripts that
could be written to itemize a bunch of the timings but they wouldn't be
trivial to write. At the moment I"m not even sure what API I'd use.

IMO you may well be seeing "normal" operation but those are famous last
words. It sounds like an interesting task to figure out and I sort of hope
someone steps in who has the time to do it. AFAIK there's no easy way to
make the determinations you'd need.

Is this your only machine? Any chance you have another one to use for
comparisons? It wouldn't even need to be the same speed or specs but the
amount of RAM and hard drive speeds should be close together.

HTH,

Twayne



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

Asked/Answered (in principle) in IE6 Browser on 10 Dec-09.

Hickory wrote:
I am using Outlook Express under XP. I am on a 768kb DSL. Mail is
scanned
by Symantec. I understand that mail, when sent, is marked as "sent"
before
it completes because Symantec has it.

Due to erratic problems with transmission, when I send a large
attachment it
may take much, much time -- up to 10 times or more slower than
normal. (When I look at Task Manager/Networking, I can see that
xmit utilization is
very, very slow.) The problem occurs very randomly, so when I see
it going
so slow, I want to kill the transmission and try again later.

I have turned off Symnatec's email scanning as a test and that
seems to make
nearly no difference. The only thing I have been able to do is
restart the
computer which seems like a really dumb way to do this.

Is there a way to kill a message after I send it but before it
finishes?

Thank you for your suggestions.

.



--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.